Home » Marshian Chronicles » Recording 101 » Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter?
| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #179249 is a reply to message #179236 ] |
Mon, 23 October 2006 03:42   |
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otek
Messages: 4000
Registered: April 2004 |
MARS Hall of Fame |
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| dikledoux wrote on Mon, 23 October 2006 03:53 |
And the Beta52 is ESPECIALLY sensitive to mic placement from my experience. Completely different kick drum sound at 2" off the beater head and 4" off.
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The Beta has an incredibly sculpted frequency response and a tight pickup pattern. I'm not sure I've had to move it around more or less than any other kick mic, but kick placement is always kinda sensitive because you're inside a small, reflective and resonant space.
... thought Alice, and she went on: "Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
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| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #179293 is a reply to message #179249 ] |
Mon, 23 October 2006 12:54 |
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| otek wrote on Mon, 23 October 2006 21:42 |
I'm not sure I've had to move it around more or less than any other kick mic
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I found the only way I could get it to be in any way acceptable was to move it from inside the drum, down the hall, out the side door and into the dumpster.
That microphone is an embarassment to all that is transduction.
Tim Shackleton
Mixer For Sale Or Rent
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| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #179322 is a reply to message #179294 ] |
Mon, 23 October 2006 14:27 |
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| dnafe wrote on Tue, 24 October 2006 07:03 |
Not fond of the 52 are we Pimp?
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I'd sooner employ the transductive capacities of a dead cat than use a Beta52.
Tim Shackleton
Mixer For Sale Or Rent
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| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #179404 is a reply to message #179293 ] |
Tue, 24 October 2006 00:23 |
sixstring_slinger
Messages: 392
Registered: September 2004 |
Music Lover |
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| Pimp-X wrote on Mon, 23 October 2006 13:54 |
I found the only way I could get it to be in any way acceptable was to move it from inside the drum, down the hall, out the side door and into the dumpster.
That microphone is an embarassment to all that is transduction.
I'd sooner employ the transductive capacities of a dead cat than use a Beta52.
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Amen brother, preach on!!!
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| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #179546 is a reply to message #179412 ] |
Wed, 25 October 2006 12:16 |
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 Skwaidu
Messages: 1930
Registered: April 2004
Location: Finland |
Best of Show |
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| Senap wrote on Tue, 24 October 2006 11:23 |
| sixstring_slinger wrote on Tue, 24 October 2006 07:23 |
| Pimp-X wrote on Mon, 23 October 2006 13:54 |
I found the only way I could get it to be in any way acceptable was to move it from inside the drum, down the hall, out the side door and into the dumpster.
That microphone is an embarassment to all that is transduction.
I'd sooner employ the transductive capacities of a dead cat than use a Beta52.
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Amen brother, preach on!!!
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I'm not too fond of it either... but, compared to the basketball-dribbling-sounding D112, it's great. I hate the D112 with a passion.
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I actually hate the Beta 52 too, but *love* the D112... 
"You Gotta Love The HOMO Stuff!"
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| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #179614 is a reply to message #179546 ] |
Thu, 26 October 2006 05:09 |
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Senap
Messages: 601
Registered: April 2004
Location: Hansringer Scandoline Fac... |
Worldly and handsome |
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| Skwaidu wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 19:16 |
| Senap wrote on Tue, 24 October 2006 11:23 |
| sixstring_slinger wrote on Tue, 24 October 2006 07:23 |
| Pimp-X wrote on Mon, 23 October 2006 13:54 |
I found the only way I could get it to be in any way acceptable was to move it from inside the drum, down the hall, out the side door and into the dumpster.
That microphone is an embarassment to all that is transduction.
I'd sooner employ the transductive capacities of a dead cat than use a Beta52.
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Amen brother, preach on!!!
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I'm not too fond of it either... but, compared to the basketball-dribbling-sounding D112, it's great. I hate the D112 with a passion.
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I actually hate the Beta 52 too, but *love* the D112...
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You're a basketball fan right?
Senap
Um de hur de hur de hur....hmm.... noo vhere-a cuoold I pusseebly feend a Svedeesh gooy vhu knoos sumetheeng ebuoot mooseecel instrooments?
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| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #181064 is a reply to message #178175 ] |
Fri, 10 November 2006 15:22 |
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It's all relative.
And mic placement matters a hell of a lot. EQ can fiddle with frequencies, but it can't compensate for the weird shit that can happen with the time element of miccing up - sound takes time to travel, hence if you've got a 12" sound source being picked up by a 1" mic that's in very close proximity, some waves are gonna arrive later than others.
WHICH ones arrive at which times is where it gets hairy, and why it's better to spend time on mic placement than spend hours and hours playing with a 6000 band EQ to try and sort out the time/phase/whatever you want to call it problems. I've been there and done it, and wished I hadn't.
I used to be of the "hang a 57 and run" crowd until I actually thought about what happens to the air movement around said activity.
And as for the pres...it's all relative. And some people will be so anal about their pres and claim MASSIVE differences. The thing that you have to remember is that these guys have been doing it for MANY MANY MANY years and have ears (or more precisely a brain) that are so finely tuned in as to be able to tell exactly WHICH ant has farted across the street.
Even though the average punter wasn't even aware there WERE ants across the street. Which is what you have to remember.
I agree to some extent - by the time the record has been EQ'd and compressed to all hell and back, then whatever small improvement in sound you got from that new preamp may well be negligible compared to everything else that's been done to it. But it still may give you a better starting point for your EQing than using [insert cheap pre make here] would.
BUT...if you're going for the 'natural' approach and aren't really doing much to the record, then maybe that tiny difference will really be worth it in the end product. I woulda thought that by the time you get up to that standard of preamp that the differences between them are gonna be quite small compared to what you'd get between a Fisher Price "My First Mixing Desk" and some top end bit of kit (i.e. a glaring difference that even the average listener could hear).
So if you're going from Behringer's worst piece of cack (and I have no anti-Behr vendetta, but they ARE cheap) up to your new Focusrite babies and still can't hear the difference, then maybe you need to spend some more time listening to stuff to hone your hearing.
Although, not everyone listening to records has been mixing them and playing with the bits of kit required to make them for 20 years.
Make of that what you will.
DISCLAIMER: I may well be talking utter bollocks here, I haven't really been doing it for long enough to really say, but I'm trying to be objective enough. All of the above is pure opinion, ignore at will.
Master of the DFA fader.
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| Re: Pre Amps Mics Speakers all BullSh*t does any of it matter? [message #181213 is a reply to message #181064 ] |
Mon, 13 November 2006 09:47 |
BiffTech
Messages: 5
Registered: December 2005
Location: Lethbridge Alberta |
Intern |
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2 things.... mic placement will make or break you. Simply that important.
Second..., but really the SAME THING, if you stuff a Beta 52 wayyy inside the drum, where we used to put the D112, the 421, yadda yadda, you miss the true punch of the mic. It's got a huge diaphram and takes a ton of signal with ease, and I've found that making sure it's NOT too far into the drum is critical. Placement with the mic just poking into the hole in the drum allows the full compression of the air to reach the mic in a huge way. NOW, you're not likely to get a great deal of high end that way... I use my faithful 421 inside the drum with the rolloff engaged halfway, to get the beater sound, and the 52 in the compression zone to get massive bottom end.
Does it truly suck? Check out pro riders from the rock scene, especially. Asking for a Beta 52 at the kick is now as common as asking for a 57 on the snare or a 58 on vocals. All those highly paid mixers can't be wrong, can they? It's a different mic than a 112 or 421, for sure... you have to USE it differently. The old RE20 was a similar beast... you needed to get it where there was some real pressure going on to really get the bottom end outta it.
I've been mixing for twenty years.. when I first got a 52, I didn't get why it wasn't doing so great, either, but then I played around with PLACEMENT, and it came to life. Then when I realized that the "new" favorite kik sound that's all huge bottom and very prominent "tick" with almost NO mids had 2 basic elements, I added another mic... A HA! The beater sound and the big, bottomy sound happen in different places in the drum.... one mic can only be in one place, so you cannot truly achieve this sound with only one mic, although a close approximation is possible.
There's also a LOT of guys that have taken this to an extreme, by using the http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_p ro_Beta91_contentBeta 91 for huge bottom, and their favorite mic to get the beater. The flexibility of this method is unreal.. simply by changing the ratio of "bottom end mic" to "high end mic" you can change the kik sound in a big, big way.
Don't blame the tools, there's lots of people getting killer results with the 52, so it has to be the application, not the device.
BTW... can anyone tell me where these dumpsters full of Betas are? I could use a few more....... try one on the bass guitar sometime..... BOOM.
Rock. Roll. 'Nuff said.
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